PLANNING BOARD WORKSHOP MEETING
TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2003
41 South Main Street
Members Present: Jim Horgan, Hiram Watson, Gary White, Charlie King, Ann Alexander, Bill Tsiros,
(Troy Robidas called in absent)
Selectmens Rep: Barry Elliott (new Selectmen's Rep and John Scruton Selectmens Alternate Rep.)
Staff Present: Paul Charron and Fran Osborne
Public Present: Brad Anderson, Conservation Commission and Charlotte P. Alling
· Meeting was called to order by Acting Chairman Horgan at 7:00 p. m. Jim stated this would be a workshop meeting. He asked for review of the March 11, 2003 minutes. Hiram motioned approval of minutes as presented, Ann 2nd, all in favor, motion carried. Charlie King was seated for Brad Anderson, Ann Alexander for Norm Russell, Gerald White for Marty's vacant seat, Bill Tsiros for Troy Robidas.
· Fran made yearly calendars for PB members to keep in their notebooks to keep track of dates coming up.
She also gave board members copies of the newly amended Zoning Ordinance for 3/11/03.
· Presentation by Brad Anderson for David DeJager for revisions to his recent subdivision approval on Garfield Street.
CEO Paul Charron - Dave DeJager couldn't be here and asked Brad Anderson to represent him and explain what is proposed.
Bill Tsiros questioned Brad Anderson presenting a plan for Dave DeJager and that it might be a conflict of interest as he sat on the PB when Dave DeJager was before the PB to have his plan approved. Brad was part of the decision making on that plan. He is now taking an interest on behalf of that applicant.
Jim Horgan - explained Brad was just presenting modifications to an approved plan in Dave DeJager's absence..
Ann Alexander - he is not on the PB at the moment. I think your point is valid, but there shouldn't be a problem right now
Jim Horgan - that's debatable..
Gary White - if he presents it now, and Brad comes back to the PB, he would have to recuse himself.
Barry Elliott - I will have to recuse myself from the board for Dave DeJager's presentation as I have a conflict. Matthew Scruton, Selectmen's Alternate designee will sit for Barry Elliott.
Paul Charron - what Dave DeJager hopes for tonight through Brad Anderson, is a plan that is time sensitive is being presented by Brad Anderson because he has the plans/equipment to do it. Dave DeJager is under time constraints and needs an answer within a month. If Dave were here tonight himself, he would like to include a part on Garfield St. for the town and it won't happen if the PB doesn't open it for discussion.
Jim Horgan - there are 2 problems: (1) conflict of interest
(2) Brad sat on this applicant's plan that influenced the result of this
Plan and he is now going to discuss it.
CEO gave Jim Horgan a letter of consent is received from Dave DeJager for Brad to represent him and his plan with the modifications to it (attached letter from Dave DeJager).
Jim Horgan - time sensitivity is not our problem.
Brad - this is a completed, approved plan by Dave DeJager. He will be presenting a new plan.
Bill Tsiros - I'm looking at ethics here with this board and the perception of the public. Discussion on a PB
member who voted on this project. In my experience, there's some ethics here. He should go the same
route as everyone else.
Brad - I abstained from voting on Dave DeJager.
Ann Alexander - discussion on conflict of interest. Today, right now, he is not a PB member. Discussion.
No plan is being presented tonight. A conceptual idea is being presented because of time constraints. Why
can't he go through the proper channel.
Planning Board Meeting March 25, 2003 (continued) Page 2
Gary White - I seem to remember Brad being against that whole project. Maybe now it is a better plan.
Brad - I wouldn't sit on the PB if I come back on the board.
Charlie King - if the PB doesn't have By-Laws that say what you can do in between being sworn in on the
board, then is there a problem?
Bill Tsiros - feels Brad Anderson is using his position to influence an applicant. This board member has 3
hats (Planning Board, Conservation Commission and Historical Preservation Guild.) He is concerned about
the image put forth to the public for Garfield St. Discussion.
Ann Alexander - discussion on merits of the plan vs. the person presenting it.
Hiram made a motion to allow Brad Anderson to represent Dave DeJager on the new proposed plan,
Ann Alexander 2nd, Bill Tsiros is opposed - motion carried.
Jim Horgan introduced Barry Elliott as the Selectmens Representative to the PB and Matthew Scruton as the
Selectmens Alternate in Barry's absence.
Brad introduced Charlotte Alling who is working with Brad. Brad said this plan may come back for Site
Review. Dave DeJager is trying to preserve community values. Brad said Dave DeJager approached him regarding the steep slopes of his project and bounced ideas around on better ways to improve this property. He will be investing additional money for the right-of-way. Areas were set aside for open space. We scoped out the plan for areas worth preserving. We tucked in 5 buildings missing areas worth preserving. Dave DeJager would deed an easement to the town with full public access to a wooded park. He would have to modify his approved plan. A lot line revision will be done to work with setbacks. Engineered plans will be presented as part of the final subdivision. Dave is offering input on types of buildings to blend with existing
architecture of buildings in the area. Private land owners will be protected. There will be 2 curb cuts instead of 6. A 2nd water and sewer easement could be done to allow access and hookup for the town. This will be a much more aesthetically pleasing plan with abutters input before coming to the PB. There would be a total of (2 duplexes, 2 single-family homes and two 3-unit buildings for a total of 12).
Jim - questioned the building planned for Gray Avenue and that the building Uel Gardner lives in would have to be removed.
Brad - the shared driveway would stay in his plan and Dave DeJager does not want to pave but keep hard-packed gravel. Dave would like engineering review waived. There will be less water and sewer hookups. He is trying to do something better based on what he heard from the PB.
Brad feels this could be a new, better way to present plans to the PB. Dave would like the PB to consider this ASAP so developers could start infrastructure work. The park will help protect slopes, there will be less road digging, protection for kids and it will aesthetically be more pleasing.
Gary White - will he still have "fingers" in the back. Brad said yes.
Charlie King - questioned 12 units. He questioned whether the Gardner house would be in addition to the proposed 12. Brad did not know. Is it possible to rework the lots? Brad - no because of time constraints. Discussion on easement.
Bill Tsiros - questioned taxes on the property for the park. He sees kids hanging out there, possibly more police patrol, lights may be needed and questioned the road standard. We shouldn't create a worse problem.
Hiram - questioned the 10' width access. Is there enough parking area?, what about liability on the park area?
Brad - state law says there is no liability on public access land. There is also a park around the corner and to my knowledge there have been no problems there and aren't now. It would be a minor concern. The town would probably maintain the park, or it may be negotiable.
Ann Alexander - asked about cost of maintaining sewer and water easement line.
Brad - this would have to be worked out with an engineer. Dale wants an easement. I don't know who would own.
Ann Alexander - questioned waiving engineering review. We need to stick to what we have just started on reviews. If we say no, he's still paying that cost.
Gary White - asked about multi-units (condos, rental units, etc.).
Planning Board Meeting March 25, 2003 (continued) Page 3
Charlie King - if we didn't require engineering review at the time it was presented, do we make him do it. At what point is engineering review required?
Jim to Paul Charron - Paul said it may be hard for the PB to set hard and fast rules. The PB should review. Any major site review or subdivision will be subject to engineering review.
Brad - single-family homes will just need a building permit. Multi-family buildings will need site review.
Bill Tsiros - this project needs to meet the Zoning Ordinance requirements. He questioned conflict of interest again.
Brad - showed pictures of Garfield St. going in to keep the look of what is in the area. Dave DeJager mentioned town houses or condos to the Code Enforcement Officer. He wants to adhere to what is in the neighborhood, building wise.
Jim Horgan - concerns: (1) lot line revision
(2) easements for water and sewer
(3) engineering review
(4) driveway question - 10' width
(5) increase in traffic.
Discussion followed.
Brad - Dave asked if a decision on setback could be made so he could start site work. Discussion followed on this.
Jim Horgan - I don't think the PB can do anything with the plan. We will put Dave DeJager on the April 22, 2003 agenda.
· Bill Tsiros - questioned if the Selectmens Alternate can participate in voting - check on this.
· Rescheduling of Workshop Meeting/2nd & 4th Tuesdays.
Barry Elliott is back on the board and Matthew Scruton is off the board.
Jim said there was concern about Mike Garrepy being able to attend as planner along with the applicant. Mike Garrepy can't attend 2nd & 4th Tuesday meetings. We came up with adjusting to the 3rd week for the workshop to accomplish what needs to be done. This would mean the 1st and 3rd Tuesday meetings would be held. Discussion on review process with the planner, applicant, PB and CEO.
Barry Elliott - discussed the process being cumbersome. He questioned things coming up that may not be able to be resolved.
CEO Paul Charron - suggested changing public hearing date with the workshop. He said there would be a public hearing on April 8, 2003 regarding this change. Discussion. The applicant pays for the planner most of the time. In the Site and Subdivision Regulations we can charge the applicant for plan reviews at $50.00/hr. We can set up "an up-front amount" and go from there. Discussion on this.
Bill Tsiros - discussion on hiring an outside engineering firm to do overview. I'm against it totally. Why does everybody have to do it?
Jim - not everyone has to. The PB can decide.
CEO Paul Charron - the town has signed a contract to do on-site engineering review with SEA Consulting. It has to do with how good they are, not the cost of the engineering.
Charlie King - I agree on customary charges, but not by the hour. If we have a fee, it should be based on a flat fee per whatever. This fee should cover approximate cost and the town be responsible for the rest.
Gary White made a motion to change from the 2nd & 4th Tuesday Planning Board Meeting schedule to the 1st & 3rd Tuesdays, Charlie King 2nd, starting in May, all in favor, motion carried.
Jim Horgan asked that this be put on the April 8, 2003 agenda.
Hiram made a motion to recess at 8:35 p. m., Charlie 2nd, motion carried. Meeting reconvened at 8:45 p.m.
Jim Horgan - "we need to plan." We took an hour out of tonight's workshop session to review a plan and "not plan."
Planning Board Meeting March 25, 2003 (continued) Page 4
· Private Road Standards presentation by CEO Paul Charron.
Develop road standards - examples of different types of roads were given
(dirt does not increase fast traffic)
If there are 3 or more residences, road standards can be applied but are not mandatory.
Develop goals & objectives.
Impacts - negative and positive
Standards for roads - ours were adopted back in 1976. Need review and updating. Width, DOT
Standards, types of roads, etc.
In July 2002 RSA 674:41 changed its rules regulating building permits (Class VI and private roads).
There are several publications "Hard Road to Travel" by Bernie Waugh, etc. to help develop standards.
More than just engineering specs are required - rural quality
- scenic vistas
- neighborhood involvement
- active living designs (for people)
Jim Horgan - discussion of building permits approved on private roads, etc.
Mike Garrepy suggested staying with one standard but designate types of roads (dirt-loop-state, etc.)
Brad asked about road counts that were done.
CEO discussed "Road Management System" which is available.
Traffic could dictate design.
Barry Elliott - 3 different plans discussed on private roads. We need to come up with a way to apply road
standards. Discussion on bringing road to town standards. The town may be required to accept the road and
maintain it. Discussion on substandard roads so the town isn't forced to take over roads brought up to town
standards.
CEO - if the PB approves a substandard road that doesn't stand up, you, the town, may still be liable.
Gary White - discussion on road for RSA Development being built to town standards and problems there.
Jim Horgan - could we define a road a little less of a standard than primary roads have. Discussion on an
"alternate standard."
Barry Elliott - discussion on construction of roads taking into consideration water and sewer lines under the
road. The town's actual liability is to the faucet. The town becomes more and more liable. Road Standards
(possibly A, B, C) which may be driven by access of water and sewer.
CEO - Dale is trying to establish standards for all kinds of utilities. His liability for water is to the faucet. If
a road was private, a note would be on the plan that "this is intended to remain a private road."
Barry Elliott - the applicant should be responsible for an on-site engineer for fill, compaction, installation,
etc.
Bill Tsiros - quality of the road in relation to assessment of property was asked about. CEO will find out.
Ann Alexander - questioned responsibility on Rtes. 153, Rte. 75 and Rte. 11.
Bill Tsiros - Rte. 153 is maintained by the town and state.
Ann Alexander - once we start bringing these standards up, are existing roads going to be brought up to the
standard?
CEO Paul Charron - yes. Ten Rod Rd. was rebuilt to State DOT specifications.
Bill Tsiros - in 2001 the town and state took Central St. to bring it up to State DOT specifications but will
turn it over to the town when completed.
Hiram - discussion on dirt road problem (Meaderboro Road and others).
Jim Horgan - standards - we need a list of roads that are private, Class VI, etc. (Fran has private & Class VI
list. He also asked about a "Road maintenance program - does it exist." How effective is it. Get with Clark
Hackett. Regarding water and sewer impact on roads - get input from Dale Sprague. Establish criteria for
road standard. Have Dale attend a meeting if he could. Consider private road standard and list of possible
waivers to be considered.
Brad - analysis costs on gravel roads vs. paved roads would be helpful.
Jim - evaluate effectiveness of maintenance program. What does the state require - what do we have? Get
Planning Board Meeting March 25, 2003 (continued) Page 5
together with Mike Garrepy our planner.
Charlie King - have a good road standard including roads that have poor standards and a program for
bringing them up to better standards.
CEO Paul Charron - the town has a legal duty to keep its roads maintained in a consistent manner.
Discussion on this topic.
Jim Horgan - we have to establish the standard.
Barry Elliott - the CIP starts the process of doing what needs to be done to bring them up to some sort of a
Standard - they will never be up to State DOT standards. Barry discussed driveway curb cuts and having a
Standard on this. Discussion.
Hiram - if you did a half mile a year, we could improve them.
Jim Horgan - establish the date to continue this private road standard - we will continue this discussion to
the May 20, 2003 Workshop meeting.
· With no further business to discuss, Bill Tsiros made a motion to adjourn at 9:35 p. m., Hiram 2nd, motion carried. Minutes recorded by Fran Osborne.
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